turtledovefandomcom-20200216-history
Talk:Franks
So we have Franks, Lombards, Iceni, and we will presumably see Franco-Saxons soon. Do we need a "Barbarians" category? TR 18:21, February 7, 2010 (UTC) :Also Saxons and Angles. We could. :My only concern is that we'll end up hurting someone's chickenshit feelings when we have to define what sets these groups apart from other ethnic groups with their own articles. Armenians are quite civilized today, but their history is ancient and they have barbarian roots. If we say "Well it doesn't count if they stopped being barbarians and became a real civilization" (another loaded definition) someone else could say "Well the Saxons are Englishmen today, and they're all civilized, except for Ozzy Osbourne and Simon Cowell." :But I'm not worried about the Armenians. I'm worried about Jews and Black people and Arabs. :Then again, it really is much ado about nothing. If some racist comes in and starts pissing all over the category, we just roll back whatever he did and throw him the fuck out. Turtle Fan 18:50, February 7, 2010 (UTC) :Alternately, we could limit it by saying "These tribes were considered barbarians by the Romans or their successors at the time of the Roman Empire or its successor states." That would seem rather arbitrary, though, wouldn't it? Turtle Fan 18:51, February 7, 2010 (UTC) ::Arbitrary, and yet that's precisely the reason we still consider them as such. That having been said, I guess just leaving them in ethnic groups is ok. Maybe include them in the appropriate country parent cat (Saxons in Britain, etc.) TR 20:10, February 7, 2010 (UTC) :::Well I'm not saying abandon the idea altogether; I think it has merit. I'm just predicting some things that will come up when we design it, the better to troubleshoot. :::The Roman connection is indeed why we think of those groups as barbarians, and in fact is even why we refer to them as "descendants of the Franks" instead of as Franks. But since HT has stories set in non-Roman backgrounds, it will only take us so far. We've got, for instance, the Slavs and Avars of Thessalonica. Turtle Fan 22:40, February 7, 2010 (UTC) "Ethnic groups", of course! I thought there was another cat to put them in but couldn't remember what and didn't feel like looking. On the issue of the sub-cat, how about "Gemanic Tribes" along with an article on the subject? It would capture the new ones and there may be some others that already exist and there may be some more from Give Me Back My Legions!. That would also fit fairly well in the Germany supercategory, by the way. Turtle Fan 04:47, February 8, 2010 (UTC) This wouldn't get all of the "barbarians" but grouping smaller ethic groups into related parent groups seems logical. The Icini would fit into "Celts" if we have enough others for that sub-cat, Jews and Arabs into "Semite peoples", Slavs and Serbs and Bulgars(?) into "Slavic peoples" and so on. ML4E 01:58, February 8, 2010 (UTC)